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I'm back, SteveO, to lend you my opinion on Beethoven's deafness. He wasn't born deaf. He was victim of some sort of illness which brought about sclerosis in his acoustic apparatus. Therefore he had listened to music and studied it, very hard and with passionate committment. I believe he could 'hear' his own music inside him. Heard it play in his soul. I've heard music played inside my soul, even in my dreams, because I know it well. Beethoven knew it even better. How could he have composed the Ninth Symphony without knowing what the musical result would be? But the sad thing is, he never heard his great composition played by an orchestra and chorus. He was stone deaf when the ninth was presented for the first time in Vienna. Incredible, really.
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thanks Bellini! I knew he became deaf in his later years, having the ability to recite or compose music in your mind is fascinating. I guess we all can do that to some extent.
How did he convey the score for example, Ninth Symphony, how was it notated to sheet music, he must have knew what notes to use by listening to his composition in his conscience?...fascinating...I think the choral passage of Ode to Joy is "out of this world"..very powerful and emotional!
Bellini48 Wrote:I'm back, SteveO, to lend you my opinion on Beethoven's deafness. He wasn't born deaf. He was victim of some sort of illness which brought about sclerosis in his acoustic apparatus. Therefore he had listened to music and studied it, very hard and with passionate committment. I believe he could 'hear' his own music inside him. Heard it play in his soul. I've heard music played inside my soul, even in my dreams, because I know it well. Beethoven knew it even better. How could he have composed the Ninth Symphony without knowing what the musical result would be? But the sad thing is, he never heard his great composition played by an orchestra and chorus. He was stone deaf when the ninth was presented for the first time in Vienna. Incredible, really.
The ultimate connection is between a performer and its' audience!
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Yes, when he wrote the notation, he certainly knew how it all sounded, the balances, the harmonies. He knew his score in creation perfectly, because of his profound musical knowledge and experience. Not to mention genius, for that he was, without a doubt. He was dynamic, at at the same time so humanly and touchingly poetic. Poetic in the second movement of the 5th concerto for piano and orchestra. As powerful as the introduction in his fifth symphony. I chanced upon one of his love letters of late and realized this man also knew how to write, nearly moved me to tears. Such love and unutterable sadness. Thanks for the dialogue, SteveO. It's nice to share these things with genuinely interested people.
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Absolutely astounding ! Thanks for the information Bellini.
The ultimate connection is between a performer and its' audience!
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You're always very welcome SteveO.
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Beethoven also used vibrations of the sound to determine the relative dissonances and their inevitable resolutions. I have heard and read that he even had a piano's legs cut down so that the he could better feel the vibrations from the piano as he was composing. With his prior knowledge of sound (scales, notes, abosolute and relative pitch) he could continue to compose and "know" what it would sound like without having to hear it clearly instead he could feel it.
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Right on, Evil! I mentioned the vibration mode earlier in the thread ...now I know..thanks!
evilB Wrote:Beethoven also used vibrations of the sound to determine the relative dissonances and their inevitable resolutions. I have heard and read that he even had a piano's legs cut down so that the he could better feel the vibrations from the piano as he was composing. With his prior knowledge of sound (scales, notes, abosolute and relative pitch) he could continue to compose and "know" what it would sound like without having to hear it clearly instead he could feel it.
The ultimate connection is between a performer and its' audience!
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Exactly. Even though the behaviour you just underlined is considered by mainstream music historians as a maniacal effort on behalf of the composer to hear what he was writing, to have an epidermal contact with what he no longer possessed. I can't even begin to imagine the tragedy for a musician not to hear. I mean, the spanish composer Rodrigo was blind since birth, composed that magnificent CONCIERTO DE ARANJUEZ (especially the second movement)and could be emotionally moved listening to the overall musical outcome. Beethoven was denied the joy of listening not only to the ninth, but to many other great compostions of his, including Missa Solemnis. When I write, for a example a succession of 7th chords, I know by theory what is dissonant and what is not. I was trained for it. But the 'sound' can never be substituted. Never.
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Flawless information, Bellini! I've been studying classical guitar on my own; it's pretty tough and I don't think I'll ever reach an acceptable level, but just trying makes me feel overjoyed. Thanks for all that data you've shared.
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You are very welcome IvanMC and it's always a joy to share with counterparts who really appreciate and say so...
