Thread: Electronic music - it is "not real"

I often find myself explaining electronic music to people. I recently told Ed why I love the new Four Tet album, but I think I was also talking about all electronic (dance) music. This column from popmatters.com does an excellent job putting electronic music in context. I hope it helps. Please share your thoughts.

from Electronic Music: The Invader and Infiltrator on Popmatters.com:

...Electronic music has always been seen as an underbelly. Say that it’s the type of music that you like the most and faces whinge and grimace. This is because electronic music has historically been unhome music, other place music. Despite this, it is recognized everywhere. Electronic music (from its advent in noise and concrète) has been around for nearly as long as sound has been recorded, but it’s somehow still stigmatized and thought of as a fringe phenomenon...

...Music made with electronics constitutes perhaps the broadest sonic category, because it is a genre delineated by instrumentation alone rather than style. Furthermore, the nature of the music’s instrumentation allows for the representation, simulation, or manipulation of any other sound. By unnaturally inhabiting the whole of music history, electronic music can widen its scope to include just about anything.

Yet it is still thought of as a singular phenomenon, albeit one that is either too simple or too complex, too arcane or too direct, too puerile or too cerebral, too course or too academic from most audiences. Electronic sounds thus exist on at least two planes. On one level, they are common and saturate our most quotidian of listening environments. On another level, they are unwelcome because they do not fit comfortably into the Promethean rockist/poptimist narrative. Electronic music is laterally integrated, but differentially excluded.

Electronic music’s disconnection from folk (root word “people”) art poses an ontological conundrum. If recorded audio was supposed to be a capture of history, the trapping of live time long after it was dead, what is manipulated sound? What to make of sound that seems to be occurring at several different times at once? If Edison conceived of the Phonograph as a kind of time machine, what kind of device is one that lays time on its side and distorts a presence so much that it creates something entirely new, something that never existed before? ...

Moving JonG's post in the "Listening To" thread over here so we don't continue to clutter up that thread with an unrelated discussion.

Jon's quote

"I like many, many things. First, I've been a fan of Four Tet for years and own some of his previous work. I expected to like it going in. I like dance music, and while this album works for home listening it is dance music. I'll wager you don't favor dance music. Four Tet tested every one of these songs at a club he had a residency at during the making of the album. I like the sounds he uses to build his tracks - the static, crackles, snippets of voice, etc. And, without gushing on for too much longer, I love the rhythm of his work. This kind of music is meant to give a physical response first, then emotional, then maybe mental.

I think most people who don't respond to dance music prefer to think about the music instead of just react. They want lyrics that paint pictures in their mind. When there are no lyrics to focus on they have trouble approaching the music. Lacking vocals (such as with most classical and much jazz) they want complex music with much variation. Again, this music appeals to the mind first and the body second.

I rarely pay attention to lyrics myself. The vocals are just another instrument. Don't get me wrong, I love the human singing voice. But I don't need to be told a story through words in each song."


A good descriptive response to what I asked about why you liked the Four Tet album. You would win your wager that I'm not a fan of "dance" music. I don't have a good reason why. I'm certainly not against dancing. I used to watch and enjoy the dance tv shows of my younger days, American Bandstand, Shindig, even Soul Train. I think it was the disco era that sunk me. I always just thought of that as mindless music with mindless lyrics, and was so relieved when I was saved by the Brits and the punk movement. I was once again swept up by the music, reborn I would say. Anyway I equate the "techno" music of the day to that disco era. The fact that it is not played using instruments that I can relate to, makes it even worse. It is recreated in a live atmosphere by flipping a switch and turning knobs, which to me takes absolutely no talent. Most of what I hear has no lyrics, but just five or 10 seconds of a computer generated sound, repeated over and over, with a disco beat added. As I've admitted elsewhere I lack an appreciation of music that is just instrumental. I'm not sure from where that originates as I do love both traditional classical and jazz. Even rock jams that go on for more than a couple of minutes become tedious for me. I admit that is an undesirable trait on my part. So I guess where we part ways on our love of music, is that you have more appreciation of music (however generated), where as I have more appreciation for the vocals/lyrics. And you are right that I am one that likes something being said in the lyrics that I can actually interpret. That doesn't mean I hate songs that don't make sense, as many do, just that I prefer a story being told. Bottom line, we both love music, just different styles. Nothing wrong with that.

It is perfectly fine to me that we do not share a love of this music. All I am asking for is respect.

I was saved by the Brits and the punk movement. I was once again swept up by the music, reborn I would say. Anyway I equate the "techno" music of the day to that disco era. The fact that it is not played using instruments that I can relate to, makes it even worse. It is recreated in a live atmosphere by flipping a switch and turning knobs, which to me takes absolutely no talent. Most of what I hear has no lyrics, but just five or 10 seconds of a computer generated sound, repeated over and over, with a disco beat added.

I think it is interesting that you talk about your love of punk rock. Punk rock musicians are often criticized for just learning three cords, playing them over and over and screaming mindless lyrics. That they have no talent.

I also want to make the point that not all electronic music is dance music. In fact if you read the entire article I quoted and linked to it mentions this. Electronic music predates disco by decades. It has been around since the first electricity powered devices capable of producing sound were invented. But you may already know this.

I'm not going to take the time here to defend the live performance of electronic music. I just want to say that I don't think you understand it so your criticism doesn't have merit.

Originally Posted by JonG

It is perfectly fine to me that we do not share a love of this music. All I am asking for is respect.

I have to say that before I started posting on this board, I didn't think highly of electronic music but I have changed my mind - not a huge fan still but at least now I appreciate the depth of the genre and the level of expertise available - thanks in large part to JonG's championing, I think.

- but watch what you say about punk!

fine, let's just make that respect mutual.

Originally Posted by CMB1888

- but watch what you say about punk!

I didn't say that, I said others say that. I was a big fan of punk rock all through high school. I don't listen to it now. I don't have enough teen-age angst anymore.

I like electronic music because for me, and most if not all of the artists who make it, its all about the music. When you cut out the words/lyrics, what you're left with is sound. I think the electronic format adds the most versatility when working with the bare essentials of "just sound" to create and describe moods and soundscapes of all differenty varieties.

Not that I dismiss traditional music, or instrumentation, or even songwriting...I love music of all kinds. I actually fully encourage the incorporation and experimentation of bringing traditional instrumentation into electronic music and vice versa.

In the end, you just have to trust your ear, and your soul, and go with what you like. Try to keep an open mind when hearing something new, and you never know what you might find. There is some electronic music I can't stand, and some punk music that I love. In the end, if its good, play it!

I used to like a lot of dance music (trance, happy hardcore, hard house) - but then I used to do naughty things called drugs then also. I think part of the appeal of those genres is how well they work for you when you're on drugs.

Now that I don't do that sort of thing any more, I don't really enjoy that type of music.

But I still like electronic music that does weird, interesting, experimental things (artists like Autechre, Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Kid606). I also like the big dance acts that appeal to rock fans (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Faithless).

I've also got a soft spot for Psy Trance and (occasionally) Gabba. But I guess that figures because I like Psychedelic Rock and Heavy Metal.

To quote Ralf Hutter of Kratwerk,a Pioneer of electronic music: " a tone is perfect when its played on a perfect place.A sequenser (now computers) can do that.I like to concentrate in hearing that perfect tone itself,instead of imagining HOW that tone was played, by for instance a guitarrplayer".

Even though electronic music is often bashed by classically trained musicians who play actual instruments, but it brings a certain element to the table if not solely by appreciation for noise; sonic manipulation, auditory therapy, and just what it actually takes to produce an electronically synthesized sound. Also, from a composition or production standpoint, I almost view the artist as a composer- just as a band leader or maestro calls on the horns, then calls on the violins, then calls in the percussion, that is a very similar process to building an electronic music track. THe composer doesn't necessarily contribute to the track in each instrument or sound manually, but ultimately is responsible for constructing a sound piece, which undoubtedly takes musical talent, knowledge, and application of discipline.

On another note to those who may not appreciate the sounds of electronic music as "real", I think as growing up as part of the Nintendo generation, the bleeps and screams of digital sounds are actually quite comforting, but I could see where it might not be so satisfying to others.